What to eat on rides...if not sugar?

northk · August 13, 2024, 4:10am

Hi all, episode 329, “Nutrition Approaches for Ultra-Endurance Events” made an important point that eating for health is different than eating for performance. Specifically, coach @trevor mentioned that eating a lot of simple, unbound and ultra-processed sugars in the form of hydration drinks, bars, and gels was great for performance but not so good for overall health. AFIB and cancer were specifically mentioned as possible outcomes. Trevor mentioned posting references to these outcomes, but I couldn’t find them on the Fast Talk website. I would like to read those so it would be great if someone could point me to them. I had thought based on other articles that eating sugars right before, during, or right after rides was OK since they would be used for fuel by the muscles.

So, I’m wondering then, what is the recommended fuel for long endurance rides, and for hard and short interval rides? I don’t do well at all with fasted rides of any intensity, so I need to eat something. Even 60 minutes before a one-hour VO2 max ride I’ll eat something, or else I don’t hit my watt targets. For example, eating half a banana and half a bagel with some peanut butter seems to work well enough.

I’m also wondering if home-made energy bars (I make some with oats and maple syrup but not too much), or lower concentration sugars such as Skratch Labs Hydration are better than high-carb sugars, and basically where is the cut line for too much sugars? How can we have strong performance while maintaining our long-term health? I would like to hear more on this.
Thanks

trevor · August 13, 2024, 7:06pm

Hi northk,

Thanks for reaching out! I’m glad the message was heard. I’ve included some of the references below. It’s a long list, but hopefully you find a few that you’d like to read!

In terms of the fueling solution to balance health and performance, I don’t have a definitive answer for you on that. I’m still figuring it out myself. But as some guidelines:

when performance is not key, favor foods that have carbohydrates but have a lower glycemic load. That generally means more natural foods where the sugars are bound
making your own foods is great! I wish I had the time. If you can’t then I’d focus on getting bars that are again, more natural, and lower glycemic load. I’d favor those over gus and gels while just training.
personally, I’ve been riding with beef jerky, but that’s not for everyone

I don’t know where the cut line is for too much sugar. I think that takes some personal exploration. I personally have a tell - when I eat too much, my AFIB acts up. And I can tell you that the line for me is very low. I can’t handle much. Hence my switch to beef jerky.

Hope that helps! Let me know what you find. In the meantime, here’s the references I promised you:

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smashsquatch · August 14, 2024, 7:45pm

My own experience:

It took me about two years of no sugar and a LOT less Z2+ but now I don’t have the same AFib issues.

Now I fuel for the work required. I did a century in 4:30 earlier this year and it was 100g of maurten an hour. When I do LSD rides I’ll either use Kind/bobos bars or recipes from skratche’s portables book (bacon, rice, eggs are incredible). If I do my ~1hr baservals, I’ll often not bother with food and if I’m doing longer sessions I’ll usually try for a rice/beans/lentils/whole grains/fruits beforehand to bump my carbs without going processed.

northk · August 14, 2024, 9:08pm

Thank @smashsquatch and @trevor. I would love to hear an in-depth podcast with a deep-dive on how to fuel in a way that balances long-term health and performance. Interviews with experts, including sports nutritionists , MD’s and maybe a chef or two. I’m wondering if there is a science-based approach to finding our personal sugar limits, maybe using a CGM or some other tool. I think this would be of interest to a lot of us Masters athletes who are in our 50’s, 60’s and beyond but still want to ride fast and long.

I’ve found that a combination of standard-level sugar drinks (Skratch Hydration) and solid bars with a mix of carbs, protein and fats work best for me. In theory pure carbs should work the best, but I definitely feel better with some fat and protein in the bars and not just all sugar.

But now I’m wondering if I could drink an electrolyte drink with no sugar, eat more lower-sugar bars and solid home-made snacks, and feel just as good. That would cut down on the simple sugars quite a lot. I love the taste of my own fresh-baked home-made bars but they do take some time to make. They do have some sugar but not as much as most commercial bars, and they also have protein and fat. I need to experiment with freezing them in a big batch and see if they still taste good when I pull out a bar one at a time.

Thanks for bringing this up, and @trevor I hope that FastTalk will consider doing a deep-dive podcast on this subject.

trevor · August 20, 2024, 2:35am

Hi northk,

Thanks for the post and for the questions! You definitely inspired me. I reached out to Dr Laursen soon after I read your post and he’s on board to do a more practical episode on how to fuel for health. Stay tuned!

Thanks,
Trevor

northk · August 20, 2024, 3:58am

@trevor that is awesome! Thanks a lot and I’m really looking forward to the deep-dive on this. I’m experimenting right now with reducing the sugar load on my zone 2 endurance rides – starting with drinking an electrolyte drink without sugar instead of my normal moderate carb/electrolyte drink. I’m still eating a carb bar on 90 minute rides as usual, but I’m really feeling the lack of carbs without the sugar drink. It feels awful and the RPE is so much higher. I hope I can adapt soon.

trevor · August 21, 2024, 11:41pm

Hi northk,
That’s the challenge that I hope we can address on the episode. Let me know how it goes. For what it’s worth, I eat almost no sugar on my rides (due to my AFIB.) I have mostly adapted and can ride well, but I admit that I can’t ride as well as I did when I wolfed down the sugars. It’s a balance I’m willing to accept, but I do think there’s a way to balance it better.

northk · August 22, 2024, 3:07am

@trevor, I suspect there is a difference between drinking sports drinks, gels, and chews (essentially sugar water with electrolytes), and eating commercial or home-made solid bars with a mix of carbs like oats, fats (nuts), protein and a little added sugar. At least, that’s my hypothesis. I’m curious if this has been studied in the context of health, and hopefully that’s something you will cover in the episode. Thanks again!

micomico · August 23, 2024, 4:59am

Trevor, you mentioned your times were slower with the beef jerky as opposed to high glycemic foods.

Spikes in blood glucose levels can trigger arrhythmias, as you know.

What if you could have your proverbial cake and eat it , too?

I work with diabetic patients. There is quite a bit of research showing how protein and fiber ingestion at higher doses decreases postprandial sugar spikes, decreases insulin and HA1C levels, and increases gastric emptying rates, among other things. I remember one study that compared favorably these two at higher doses with the effects of metformin.

I mention that wondering if there could be a performance increase if you used a good amount of soluble fiber and added simple carbs. Inulin comes to mind as there is good research on it:

The Effects of Soluble Dietary Fibers on Glycemic Response: An Overview and Futures Perspectives - PMC.

Everyone responds with variation, you may want to experiment with more inulin and less simple carbs at first, then decrease the inulin/simple sugars ratio up to the point before an AFIB episode.

A very big deal with AFIB is the 5x or so increased possibility of an ischemic stroke. And AFIB strokes are more deadly, more disabling.

A clot can form, most often in the auricle of the left Atrium of the heart. While for some time invasive transesophageal imaging has been used, now you can get very good imaging doing noninvasive cardiac MRI. And you are in good health to do so.

Even on direct anticoagulants, one can still have strokes: as much as almost half of afibers on meds can have persistent thrombus.

Here is one article about this in case you are interested:

Wishing you sweet rides, in more ways than one.

Luis

trevor · August 24, 2024, 3:34am

Hi northk and micomico,

Thanks for the thoughts and the really interesting advice. I was about to say that the problem is there’s very limited research on this. Most of the sports science research is on the mix of sugars and how much we can consume. There’s far less interest in the effects of more natural food on performance.

micomico, I’m definitely going to have to try your suggestion. I’ve seen the research about fiber and glycemic response but I never carried it over to potentially helping to control AFIB. Very interested in seeing the effects!

Thanks,
Trevor

micomico · August 24, 2024, 4:27pm

You may want to try this before riding: Use a CGM and after getting baseline readings, ingest the simple carbs/inulin, then see what the spike is as well as a more stable increase in baseline glucose levels.

Play around with the ratios to see what shows a gradual, non-triggering effect but gives enough of an increase to properly fuel you if you were riding.

Once you dialed that in, then ride and again recalibrate, then recalibrate again based on what type of ride/length.

You may find that you can adjust the ratio, even in the middle of a ride (2nd bottle contains more inulin, for example). You can drink from both as needed.

Keep an eye on the sugar levels with the CGM as you ride. You may likely find that you will have less peaks/lows if you ingest every 15 minutes or so.

Let us know how it goes! Plenty of cyclists and endurance athletes with afib, (thinking Leonard Z) - if this works write a paper!

micomico · August 24, 2024, 9:35pm

PS. If you really want to micro calibrate glucose levels riding, have the glucose levels showing on your cell phone. You can sip from the camelback, which contains liquid simple sugars and water, and have a bottle that has inulin and water.

You will have to account for the few minutes lag time with the CGM since it measures interstitial, as well as the usual stomach/interstitial lag time- but you should be able to comfortably make adjustments.

This will lead to even less spikes, and you will not have to be reaching down so often on rides/events.

If you take Vitamin C it may affect readings.

smashsquatch · August 25, 2024, 1:31pm

This feels like maybe you don’t have your zones quite right (and that your Z2 is set too high)? Or is this first thing without any breakfast?

For reference my fat max is around 230w and I’m burning 65g of carbs an hour. At that rate, I would need about 5 hours to empty the tank. So do I need a bunch of processed carbs during? Assuming I don’t have something big later in the day, just eating enough is usually all I need.

However if I do the same duration ride but get carried away because it’s a group ride, I better be smashing the simple sugars or I’ll bonk towards the end.

Personal experience with this when I as a non-diabetic wore a CGM for 3 months.

Fat, fiber and protein lower my insulin response when taken before or with the meal (slightly more effective when before). Spices help a little (Cinnamon). Tweaking the processing level of a food has a notable effect (steel cut vs. rolled vs. instant oatmeal with steel cut being 20+ lower).

Fun random. Two Ucanns has almost no affect on blood sugar and a super carb drink has a lot (+60). Super carb + high intensity exercise and I think I broke the CGM.

northk · August 28, 2024, 5:01am

@smashsquatch I think you are right that my zone 2 has been set too high. I’ve been experimenting with riding at a lower pace for zone 2 and that feels more sustainable. But, even with that, I still need to eat on a ride (anything over one hour). I just don’t feel good at any pace if I don’t eat something on longer rides. That said, I’m starting to feel better just drinking electrolytes and eating solid foods, not drinking carb solution at the same time as I had done previously. I suspect this is better than drinking a sugar solution, but I would love to see studies on that.

Angstrom · September 20, 2024, 9:39pm

I’ve used microvaved sweet potatos or oven-roasted potato pieces as low-intensity ride food, as well as homemade rice bars and oat/dried fruit energy bars. If I’m using commercial bars they’re things with some fiber and protein – Clif, OWL, Picky, RX, etc. I will admit to carrying one high-sugar option in case I underfuel and need a quick hit, but I do try to avoid that.

northk · September 20, 2024, 11:52pm

@Angstrom would you be willing to share your recipes for homemade rice bars and oat/dried fruit energy bars? I agree with choosing bars that have a mix of fiber, protein and carbs if I’m consuming commercial bars on a ride. But I much prefer the taste of homemade bars. I would add that the homemade bars I make seem to work just as well as the commercial bars, except they have a lot less added sugar.
Thanks.

Angstrom · September 21, 2024, 1:32am

Our 6 Most Popular Rice Cake Recipes - Skratch Labs
For rice bars, I started with the Allan Lim/Skratch bacon & egg recipe(cut in half), and started coming up with my own variations. It is nice to have something savory. One of my favorites is Pad-Thai-ish: I cook the rice with diced fresh ginger and garlic, and add natural peanut butter and lime juice.
For no-bake bars, a lot of the time I don’t use a recipe – it’s just throwing things in the food processor. Start with dates & figs, oats, maybe unsweetend chocolate or cocoa powder, oats, maybe peanut butter or nuts, cinnamon, dash of salt… Might need a splash of water to mix, the oats will absorb it as they sit. Form into balls and roll in oat flour, or mash into a parchment-lined pan and throw in the fridge. Rolling in oat flour is a good way to keep homemade balls & bars from sticking. Sorry I’m not more specific – my “recipes” are a bunch of old kitchen-stained printouts with no clue as to the source. One is attached. As the note says, it’s just a guideline – modify to suit. In this one, the maple syrup can probably be deleted for low-intensity use because the fruit is more than sweet enough.

spambittehierher · September 21, 2024, 6:24am

I have sushi rice with a little cocos fat/milk and salt for the taste for every training ride above 2h. I make it a bit moister and softer than sushi rice should be for easier handling and digestion, and I tolerate that very well. I pack it in a reusable (for a few times at least) zip lock bag.
It’s not as rewarding as a bar, but still a lot tastier than most gels.
I usually still have one or two gels with me, but rarely feel the need to use them. It’s to say, I need both hands to eat this, so that’s not for races.

When I know the intensity will be low throughout and no longer than 1-2 h, I’ll also have only water in the bottles.