Hi all, I’m wondering if anyone has tried the Fourth Frontier X2 continuous ECG monitor? It is supposed to measure heart strain so you don’t over-tax your heart. Which is important because I’m in my fifties and because it relates to my other question on doing Sprint Interval Training to increase FTP here: Sprint Intensity Intervals to increase FTP.
Has anyone tried this device? Is it just a gimmick, or does it really work to help you understand the strain level on your heart for example during hard intervals?
Thanks.
FWIW, I have had the Frontier X2 for the past 3-4 months. I intend no disrespect to Frontier. I also want to be candid: their customer service leaves a whole lot to be desired. E.g., putting up a post as to a topic, and, it was in moderation limbo. It never did get “moderated.” And it had to be with a serious issue of assessing the significance of PSVT events. The Heart Program subscription for $150 a month left me in limbo awaiting the link that would have allowed me actually to get a Cardiologist to provide commentary on that issue. So, I quit that program.
The HR monitor itself is a heart rate monitor. Cardiac Strain is a proprietary metric based upon data they own, if I understand their site correctly. The device itself appears far more susceptible to artifact than either my Polar H10, but especially compared with the rock solid Movesense Medical device. FWIW, each of those devices can provide realtime ECG while doing a workout.
The recommendations for upcoming workouts are insipid, so I won’t take up bandwidth, and that’s especially true if you’ve been working out on programs like www.xertonline.com or you have your own coach or you are familiar with PerfPro.
End of story: I’ve quit using it, relying instead on the data from VO2 Master to provide connections to all my sensors, to include my Smart bike from Wahoo, two Moxy monitors, my Movesense MD HR monitor and I get power, cadence, speed from either the Kick or my Assioma pedals.
I wasted $500 on Frontier. You can also do a YouTube video search to find out what other folks have had to say about their use of the program.
@Anthony_S thanks a lot for your reply and review. Based on that it looks like the Frontier X2 is not ready for prime time yet. The Movesense sounds pretty good but it doesn’t look like a consumer-ready product I could purchase. I already have a Polar H10 but I don’t know how I would get it to show continuous ECG during a workout on a head unit like Wahoo or Karoo 2.
You’re welcome and IMHO exactly correct with regard to “prime time.” Movesense can be reviewed at Muscle Oxygen Training: Muscle Oxygen Training blog index. Dr. Rogers is brilliant AFAIC. Further, Movesense has it’s own dedicated application that allows me to see my ECG in real-time when installed on my iPhone. Moreover while using www.xertonline.com, e.g. can swipe between the Movesense app and the Xert app to see the metrics important to me. I’m doing that, however, on my indoor Kickr Smart Bike. So, if you’re riding out doors that may prove to be a clunky operation. The other thing to keep in mind is that Kubios Premium is expensive and only the expensive version allows ECG data to serve as the basis for its calculations of the multiple parameters of cardiac function that it records. While also not primetime, in fact it’s only in alpha version now, www.fitnesshrv.com is on the horizon. I hope this helps. Anthony
I think @Anthony_S is a little harsh on Fourth Frontier X2, although I get where he is coming from. (I use the same equipment and platforms as him and have also exchanged a few emails with Dr Rogers when I was writing about the SmO2 sensor Train.red)
Of course, there are ways to use other chest straps like the Polar H10 alongside ECG-capable software like Kubios
The point is that this product is targeted at probably a less technically sophisticated user so having the ECG part of the solution as an out-of-the-box product will appeal to many. That’s why people buy Peloton rather than a Wahoo Kickr…it just works and there are no connectivity issues to solve…
HEART STRAIN: Fourth Frontier does have a novel metric that looks at the relative amplitude of the ST segment of each heart beat. It’s not rocket science but I am unaware of any other vendor that has used the same metric and I doubt it is patented. It’s a relatively simple metric but obviously requires ECG-level accuracy for it to work. Fourth Frontier monitors this in real-time and uses an on-device haptic alert (it buzzes!!) if the algorithm is triggered. Again, no other device I know of does this. Because Fourth Frontier X2 can also act as a regular HR strap it just fits into how a sports person currently works (albeit with only one Bluetooth connection) but with the caching/alerting/ECG stuff layered on top as extra functionality.
For less sophisticated users who are engaging or about to engage with medical professionals then Fourth Frontier products decent ECGs in pdf format (or real time). so you can take those your doctor. In the UK that might possibly speed up the process to get past the GP and to a consultation…IDK. It certainly can’t hurt. Plus wearing a 12-lead ECG is non-trivial whereas wearing a 2-lead chest strap for 24 hours is straightforward enough.
If you and your partner or over 50 and if you have 4 elderly parents then this sort of product is great for monitoring heart health and superior to rather simplistic ECGs that are possible on devices like Apple Watch (I wouldn’t trust what they produce in their one-off readings over 30 seconds)
If you are fit and healthy with no heart concerns then you don’t “need” Fourth Frontier X2. As we know though, once you get past 50, or so, heart problems start to become more frequent even if we’ve previously led an athletic lifestyle (there are numerous highly publicised cases of highly athletic footballers having cardiac issues)
Thank you for your extensive reply, 5kRunner. I continue to use the X2 because the Heart Strain metric is crucial for me given the cardiac condition with which I must contend. I also value its metrics so far as my hiking/walking activities. That the FF interface permits exporting the data via a .FIT file allows for those data also to be used in my Garmin app. Sadly, however, it’s .FIT export does not include a record of the RR data. I know that because I use KUBIOS Scientific for its ECG analytic capability as. well as for the various TRIMP metrics, decoupling data, and to ensure that my cardiologist has as much data as he can get to supervise my rehab. I’ve advised KUBIOS, sent them my latest file, they have inspected it and confirmed that there are no RR raw data in the export to the .FIT file (despite the fact that the X2 readout shows HRV values as a function of workout activity. KUBIOS further advises me that they will contact FF to inquire why no raw RR data are included in the export. FWIW, PolarH10 and Movesense Medical do in fat log raw RR data and seamlessly transfer those data to Garmin via .FIT. HTH, Anthony
I asked on FF via their Chat option for info and I’m awaiting their response, though I expect that when/if I hear from the CS (sic) folks the news will confirm your comment. Looks like a change to Movesense MD is the only ‘move that makes sense’. Thanks for your reponse, 5kRunner. I’ll post here if I hear from FF.
hi the issue is in the FF app not its chest strap. it is an export issue from the app. within the FF app and ecosystem the data will be saved with the correct resolution . FF can change how they export if they want to…i have asked them to do that.
the data is collected at 125Hz or every 8 milliseconds. I assume stored at same resolution.
I tried one of these while investigating my rapid heart rate. Yes, it did indicate after a ride the points where I had an irregular heart beat. Nothing in real time. No correlation to other factors. No useful data. Nothing actionable. I stopped using it, went back to my trusty Garmin, no fussy buttons, no recharging, and much lighter.
Kubios Scientific has confirmed for me, secondary to a conversation they had with FF, that indeed FF does NOT export RR data at a rate that allows Kubios to calculate critically important ECG parameters. Moreover, the 125hz acquisition rate is certainly markedly discrepant from what Movesense MD reports - up to 500hz, selectable by the user. Even so, the real-time display of Heart Strain I find to be seriously useful for clients for whose CV dysrhythmic behavior is stimulated by excessive energy output. FWIW, HR, HRV, Training Load, Heart Strain, are shown continuously, in real-time, on the FF app.
Corrections to my previous post on the FF cardiac strain. 1. I did NOT have the newer version at the time that I wrote it. Big mistake in thinking I did. 2. Cardiac strain is, acc to some medical literature, a reasonable metric which, when viewed in real-time and in combination with ECG, HR, HRV, breathing rate and depth, can be seriously useful in making within workout adjustments to remain within safe (sic) energy output limits.
The current iteration of FourthFrontier, the X2 model, dispatches most of my criticism’s of the original version. E.g., it does indeed provide a second by second acquisition rate of HR, includes HRV, ECG, Br/m, and their metric called Heart Strain, one which looks at the morphology and chronometry of the ST segment of the cardiac wave form. It produces those data on my iPhone 15ProMax via its application and I can monitor each of those parameters in real-time to see how the co-vary and to see when I’ve exceeded my self-set limits.
FourthFrontier’s recommendations for those of us who are (or as for me, were) Coaches will still find their recommendations insipid, but that fault (IMHO) is outweighed by the data it produces in the X2 version. Still expensive at $500, but I’m a much reassured , aging (pushing 87) athlete who still wants to exercise and not drop dead while doing so. Nothing’s perfect, but in this case those from X2 are more useful than HR alone. Just my .02 and as always YMMV
