Studies like this were what inspired me and this post to consider running vs cycling specifically for base training. There was another study that mentioned transferability between cycling vs running performance with similar results (runners did better on cycling test than cyclists did on running test), though I don’t remember the study or where I saved it.
The other thing I keep coming back to is people mentioning that if you have limited time (say 30 minutes) a run will do more for you than a bike ride. I agree with that and feel that if I don’t have at least an hour of time, I won’t go for a ride because it seems too short. As a more direct/numerical example, running TSS is calculated differently than cycling TSS. This made me wonder then if this could improve linearly out to longer timespans, e.g. is a 1 hour run ‘better’ aerobically than a 1.5 hour ride? and scaled up to a base ‘season’, does this make sense again?
Just wanted to give an update here to the zones being off - you were exactly right! I had not done an FTP test in a 1.5 years or so (don’t have a power meter so only do it in winter on the trainer) and found out that my threshold HR has dropped by ~5bpm. The last ramp test I had done before that had showed a ~2bpm drop but I had done it indoors on a particularly warm day so I thought my performance was being suppressed by heat so I didn’t think to lower my zones. I didn’t have the same problem running because I didn’t know what my zones should be so I just ran whatever pace my training plan told me to do.
That little difference in cycling HR scope for me was enough that the upper third of my Z2 (in three zone model) was threshold and above, so I was unintentionally aiming for threshold and above when only doing Z2… that explains the fatigue!
Yeah - there’s also something to be said about balance and sustainability. I was doing 15-18 hours on the bike there for a while and getting burned out. Last week I did 10 hours on the bike, 5 hours running, and 2.5 hours on the erg and this feels way more sustainable. I was having pretty consistent lower back pain and that has seemed to wane as I’ve gone away from cycling exclusively.
I tend to schedule the key bike workouts into the big blocks of time I have (as I have five kids and we do a lot of running around), then mix the running and rowing into the smaller blocks of time. Running is all very easy; I’m still trying out the VO2 Max work on the rower (mixed in with steady state work), and all of my tempo stuff on the bike. We’ll see.
I used to feel like that but these days I frequently jump on the trainer for 30-45 minutes if that is all I got. Yesterday for example, I did a long hike with my wife and my legs felt heavy after. Before dinner I did 30 minutes on the trainer with a 10 minute BFR* interval. My legs feel great today and ready for training. (*I’ve been experimenting with blood flow restriction training but that is a whole other conversation.)
I’d love to see some studies on high frequency cycling training. I bet one could do pretty well on 10+ workouts per week at a time crunched number of hours.
One thing I have seen over the years, is that using cross training in the right way can be very beneficial to those that are stuck at a certain fitness level.
Sometimes there is room for an overall fitness improvement that some just can’t quite seem to get with just cycling.
Adding in other sports that are similar but allow for more workload without the localized fatigue cycling can bring improvements in many.
Sometimes being a better, fitter athlete can go a long way on a bicycle for some of us.
I have been using them with hockey players and the fighter I coach for years…like ten years.
I started using them with a few cyclocross racers and great success, one elite national champ and a vet national champ.
The reason they worked well is to be able to get heart rate and respiration up easily, but still be using the legs.
So doing any intervals 1m or under were ALWAYS on the airdyne.
Also, when I see someone starting to lost their max heart rate and not be able to get it up on the bicycle when all other training seems to be going well, switch to the airdyne and BOOM back it comes.
It is like combining cross country skiing and pedaling - great combo.
So, for something like your Ultimate workout - you would potentially use an air bike? Or just for anaerobic work specifically (short maximal efforts with long rests)? Or both? Thanks!
Anything where you are looking to drive heart rate and respiration.
The athlete will still be pedaling but with more body parts moving heart rate and respiration will be higher than on the bicycle, so I find they can do this training and it has less effect on other training, but more effective on driving the markers we look for in training above threshold.
Yeah this makes sense and is why I am trying out the rower for high intensity stuff. Intuitively, it seems rowing should challenge the heart more as loads more muscles are involved, increasing the overall demand for oxygenated blood. But this is predicated on me having the ability (muscular endurance?) to be able to push hard enough. For example, if my forearms start to cramp everything falls apart.
I can get my heart rate higher on the bike right now if I do 2m intervals at MAP with high cadence so I don’t know for sure.
As an aside - I have found small but consistent drops in SmO2 when I shift positions on the bike and relieve pressure from my hands. My sense is as I am in a fixed position, my body sort of ignores my hands, but as soon as I release them from a fixed position, blood is rushed to them and this results in a drop in SmO2 in my legs…
Something else I have been thinking about is lactate production and clearance. Ideally, I would like the cardiovascular benefits of VO2 Max training without the lactate production, or priming of the glycolytic system.
An advantage to doing VO2 Max training using the rower or the air bike could be a “shared burden” in terms of lactate production. The focus moves from the legs only to more of the body overall. I don’t know if this helps but it seems like it might reduce - to some extent - the lactate concentration in the legs and - potentially - train the body to shuttle and deal with lactate in other areas of the body.
I have absolutely no evidence for this rationale, but there it is.
Interesting thoughts, I know the affect on the metabolic cart is considerably higher. I will try and find two different tests I did , one on bike one on airdyne.
The difference in the rower and airdyne is cadence.
You will be hard pressed to get over 30 strokes a minute on the rower, my athletes range from 80 (most cyclists and the ufc fighter) to 115 (NHL hockey players) either way the cadence will have a greater effect on the heart rate and respiration on the airdyne than a rower.
There is a lot more technique to rowing than the airdyne.
I will try and muster up the energy to do some 30/30s on the bike, then on the airdyne using the metcart, but don’t hold your breath it will be a few days.
Yes - but the rower is in the basement and an air dyne is a conversation with my wife I’d rather not have for bit. You’ve definitely put it on my radar though.
Steve. Specifically for mountain biking, do you find rowing helps prepare for the upper body components? I was wondering if there might be a benefit it prioritizing rowing to get ready for trails drying out in the spring.
Sadly nothing gets the body ready like riding trails gets it ready.
Rowing might help a little but you have to be careful. Many people train to get ready for the trails the wrong way, happens a lot in motocross, they get arm pump, so they try and train their grip strength and do lots of upper body strength - now this is ok as long as the training you are doing doesn’t turn your upper body into MORE of a lactate producer.
Sorry to be vague here but I have tried all sorts of things with people, and the people who have difficulties hitting the big long descents in the spring just need to ride more, and learn to relax the upper body more.
Same thing in moto, the more you ride the bike, and learn to stay with the bike when it accelerates and decelerates the less you need to really HOLD on, so the arms work less when you are more relaxed and with the bike.
Moving away from the lactate idea…
With VO2 Max, we see higher values with sports that incorporate more muscle mass, XC Ski > Run > Bike.
With VO2 Max Training, what types of adaptions are we wanting to make?
Central vs Peripheral?
With something like the Air-dyne, we have more total body activity, which increases the muscle pump leading to an increases diastolic filling volume. Using a higher cadence also increases the muscle pump further. By eccentrically loading the heart, we can build a larger stroke volume, and have long term central gains.
