Test and re-test

[steveneal]

There are a lot of discussions about different points, FatMax, Crossover Point, Lactate Deflections, etc.

I just wanted to give an example of one aspect of testing. This is why I like to test more often, and why some sort of physiological testing is important rather than just looking at power and heart rate.

This athlete (40 year old pro female road racer).

I do not coach her, but her coach was involved in the initial and post test review.

We used an Inscyd Test to set training zones, the coach then used these zones along with his philosophy. He was a top pro in North America, lots of great experience, and has been working with the athlete for years. They have a good working relationship, but decided to have me get involved to see if I can find something to help.

We used a metabolic cart during the same 7 day period, so that they could both see that the results from Inscyd and the cart were very similar, all stats within a few watts both tests. Also, to be able to gather respiration data and create a respiration training plan.

Has been having trouble eating during events, and losing performance, due to upset stomach.

Same training 2 days before testing.

Same breakfast 4 hours before testing.

Testing done at same time of day, same location.

Held 240 watts for 54 seconds October.

Held 240 watts for 4 minutes December.

Here is an example of an initial test and follow-up from the metabolic cart.

FatMax - Change up 20 watts Oct to Dec (14%)

Metabolic Efficiency Point (Fat Carb Crossover) - 160 to 220 watts - 37.5% increase.

Below was a breakdown of her training between the two test dates.

We modified training zones, they were easier than the coach was using.

We modified nutrition off the bike, this was a big change for the athlete. Seeing the test results really helped her that the hard work in changing the nutrition was really worth it.

Happy New Year…just thought I would share some changes I often see.

[jm1]

this is fascinating. I realize nutrition is personal, but do you think the changes the athlete made are generally applicable to others?

[steveneal]

They are the same changes I recommend everyone start with, so yes.

[Phil]

More remarkable for me is not only the right shift of fat max but the absolute increase in Fatmac from 38g/hour to 66g/hour An increase of 73.7% over the Oct number, in just two months. Looks to be about 81% in Z1/2 HR zones.

[novet]

Fascinating to see this. I can see this is from predominantly zone 2 training, but just wondering how the zone2/3 boundry falls in relation to the tempo training you have described previously? That is, with the HR ceiling of around 80% max.

[steveneal]

Here is the raw data. HR max is at top of graph, avg last 20s of step.

Respiration frequency, last 30s of step.

Fat last 120s of step.

Dec - FatMax at 80.2% max heart rate.

Oct - FatMax at 73.7% max heart rate

[fljones3]

@steveneal

They are the same changes I recommend everyone start with, so yes.

I am relatively new here but if they are the “same changes” you recommend — can you give us any hint here what they are, or direct us to a post? Thanks.

[steveneal]

Sure I will see if I can find an older post, or will post again, might be tomorrow though.

[steveneal]

Hello,

after thinking about this overnight.

Nutrition advice is something I would rather do on an individual basis, rather than the forum.

Books by Bob Seebohar will get you headed in the right direction, if you feel you need more then let me know and we can do a consult.

You will need to have access to metabolic testing, or it isn’t worth it. You need to be able to test and see if you the changes you are making are working.

I see this all the time, people who do fasted training, then have a really low fatmax…clearly that isn’t the way to go for that person.

Steve

[steveneal]

@fljones3

I will share where I start.

.9 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight.

Example of 175 pound person.

I find most can do quite well between 1:1 Pro/Carb ratio and 1:2 Pro/Carb ratio.

Depending on where your current breakdown is would determine how long to switch to these ratios.

The key is to have the relationship at all meals and snacks. Don’t just reach these totals by the end of the day.

[fljones3]

Thanks Steve. I completely understand and appreciate the author recommendation.
Frank

[fljones3]

Great. Enough to get me looking at further fine-tuning my nutrition.
I did a 3 months nutrition earlier this year which was very helpful. I also lost about 13 pounds, along with a personal best on a 30+ mile loop that I often train on.