So the polarized/pyramidal model has been well established wherein most training volume is concentrated below VT1 (80% of sessions; 90% of time)
Does the panel know of any studies that have examined the distribution of the “80%”? Observational studies of elite athletes show the vast majority of the time below VT1 has been in zone 1 of a five zone model.But has the distribution within the “80%” ever been put to a laboratory/field experiment i.e. zone 1 vs zone 2?
Example: all subjects would do the same 20% above VT1, whether it be pyramidal or more polarized. And All subjects would do 80% of their training below VT1. However, one group would do the majority of their “80%” at 70-80% of maxHR (zone 2 in traditional plans), while another would do the majority of their easy training at less than 70% (zone 1 in traditional plans).
I think the pros being more towards Z1 (of five zone HR) is related to how much more power they produce in their Z1 but also the shear volume they do. I think I read pros average 20-30 hours per week and will often peak at between 30-40 hours per week at certain times of year.
So while most of us can handle averaging 10 hours of Z2 a week and recover, handling 20-30 hours of Z2 and recovering and therefore getting adaption benefit is not in the gift of many including pros.
I’m sure I’ve also heard @stephen.seiler say that most amateurs will ride at the top of any zones given. He’s said that’s not the aim and you should see the zone boundaries as absolute caps and not targets.
Great conversation! Just a couple quick things to add on my end… first, @Phil, I am a little surprised to see that your threshold heart rate is around 145 BPM when your max is 167 BPM. That tells me that there is potential for improvement in your aerobic engine (which is a good thing!)
In terms of where to ride in Z1 (on a three zone model,) I haven’t seen specific studies on this but have had many conversations. I agree completely with @Phil that amateur riders tend to like to hit the top edge of a zone while pros do see it as a range and try to sit closer to the middle. That said, there are some coaches and physiologists, such as Dr Inigo San Milan, who sees huge value in riding right at the edge of LT1. It’s a tough ride and I don’t personally have my athletes always do those aerobic threshold rides, but I have seen value in them.
Last note, yes, when there’s a group, the leaders need to go a little above the target intensity when they’re on the front in order to keep the rest of the group at the right intensity. It’s a minor sacrifice for the enjoyment of a good group ride.
Here’s my easy group (of 8) ride from today; I spent the first 20Km on the front trying to set the goal pace for the ride. Yesterday was similar, over 98Km.
Today I was out on the easy loop I posted the heart rate distribution for back in Dec. Back then the ride time had gone up to 1 hour 31 min when staying easy. Today the time has dropped to 1 hour 27 mins. I plan to do my test easy steady session on turbo tomorrow to see how the heart rate to power now looks. But based on my regular easy loops, seeing improvement after 4 weeks of these Seiler Z1 rides.
Easy rides up to 8 hours 26 mins last week, spread over 4 rides. Planning keeping this going till mid March then time to move on from Base.
The Seiler Z1 is a pretty broad range.
I therefore prefer the 5 zone model: 1 for recovery, 2 for endurance / long slow duration, 3 for time-efficient aerobic development (and some type II fiber engagement).
4 and 5 out of 5 are close to Seiler’s Z3.
Which more zones, you can be more creative.
Slightly wider than your Z2 in the five zone model. A bit of top end Z1, all of Z2, a bit of low end Z3.
I certainly don’t see lack of lots of zones as limiting creativity. Besides I’m not into complexity, which some call creativity, for the sake of it.
I think there’s a lot of making things more complex than they need to be. I certainly see this when I see the turbo sessions of friends.
I like the KISS principle for my sessions and structure. I don’t need marginal gains or perfection. I’m not competing at the Olympics. I just need to nail the basics, consistently. Never let chasing perfection get in the way of good enough.
Last Sunday I went out alone for a ride, beautiful sunny day, zero traffic, no wind and a few episodes of this podcast in one ear. I loved it.
I pedaled without really looking at the data but it felt easy to me. Would you classify it as easy by looking at these charts? My max HR is 178
Hi @mgherardi, glad you enjoyed the ride! Looks like a good steady base-miles ride! I would have been very happy if one of my athletes had posted a ride that looked like that.
Everyone’s physiology is different - one person’s aerobic threshold is going to be at a very different place from another’s. So, I’m generalizing here, but based on your max heart rate, it looks like most of the ride was under your AeT, so I don’t think it was too hard. Actually looks about right to get some good aerobic gains.
Just thought I’d add to my post 7 days ago about pace. Today’s ride of one of my regular routes, ride time down to 1 hour 26 min with an average HR 10 bpm below and max HR 7 bpm below my data from end November / beginning of December.
The route has no traffic lights, hardly any traffic, and light winds on all the days I’ve ridden it. About perfect as it gets for a test loop to compare on.
Now I really need to do the sub maximal test again on the turbo to compare the power numbers for same steady HR.
Hi @Phil, it will be interesting to see what the trainer test produces for you, but I have to say that the improvements you described on the road are pretty impressive. That’s a big change!
Yes @trevor I was pleasantly surprised when I compared them. I have noticed I’m holding bigger gears and still below LT1 on a few inclines. But this is first time I’ve properly looked back over the rides. I was on my 2.5 hour loop today. This loop was introduced more recently around Christmas. This one is seeing similar improvements.
I must say it seems like I wasn’t seeing much movement then suddenly I am. But I think that’s just that the further apart the rides the greater the differences you can see. I promise I haven’t greased the wheel bearings or put faster summer tyres on.
I’m afraid it is fairly mild here at the moment and if the risk of ice is low my preference is to get outside on my loops. I’m sure I’ll get round to my test on turbo soon enough. I’ll report back when I do.
HI @Phil please do! And yes, this is the one unfortunate side of polarizing and putting a focus on building that aerobic fitness - those systems build very slowly.
I have an athlete I coach who saw over two years with no gains after I started coaching him. I give him full credit that he stuck with it despite the lack of success. In the two years after that he was constantly shocked by the improvement in his form. He’s 53 years old. He was a cat 4 when we started to work together and now he’s going out for rides with Cat 1 and 2 riders.
I take very little credit for that. He was the one who stayed long term focused and was patient. But that is what it takes.
I think patience is the drip of water that wears away the rock. Bit by bit I’m dripping in the aerobic fitness and wearing away the rock that blocks my progress to higher ground.
That’s some commitment and just the kind of thing we need to hear. In a world of instant results , we need to hear about the slow burn gains measured in years.
I get the feeling that high intensity is like waves on the surface of the ocean, whilst low intensity is the ocean. The amount of water in your ocean determines the height of low tide, your baseline fitness. The high intensity is just the difference between low and high tide and will wax and wane like the moon.
I finally got round to doing another test on my turbo.
Power is up 26 watts at a HR 5 bpm below when I tested 3 months ago. Average HR this session 126 bpm, and 131 bpm three months ago. I’d say it’s the last couple of months I’ve seen the movement as I’ve settled into a consistent frequency and progressed the volume.
I’m going to keep going for another 4 weeks then I’ll bring back high intensity into the mix. My main event is August.
