Thanks @Trevor, I’m really glad to hear that! I’ve been pretty wrecked after that last set, so a bit lower intensity very much welcome. Will try again tomorrow and see how they pan out.
Here are the updated zip files that contain .ZWO, .ERG, and .MRC file extensions for use with other platforms. I hope this helps until we can get them up on the site with the .FIT file!
you should be able to click on those and have the .zip file download. Our .FIT files can still be downloaded from the specific workout page on the site.
I hope that helps!
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Hope it goes well @Mr.B! Appreciate that you’re putting the effort into making sure you execute them as well as possible. And @ryan, thanks for uploading the FIT files!
Hi @ryan - the 5x5 shows 4x5 when I upload it to Intervals.icu.
Edit: is it as simple as adding a 5th interval to make it a 60m workout?
@geraldm24 thanks for catching that! Yes, you should be able to just add that 5th interval in there. I’m going to go back and double check the export and will re-post.
Should be updated now with the correct # of intervals - 5x5 1 min rest.
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Thanks @trevor - did another set earlier, also incorporating the warm up shown in this thread. The first two or three intervals I got close to my threshold hr (about 5 or 6 beats below). In the last two I hit my threshold hr and went one beat above my threshold hr for about 10 seconds in the last one, so pretty much exactly as you described I think. It felt much more sustainable than the previous session I did.
Hello, members!
Just letting you know that we have just updated our 4x8 and 5x5 minute interval workout files that are part of Library Membership.
Now included in the workout download files are more file formats:
- .FIT - for any platforms that use .fit file formats
- .ZWO – for Zwift
- .ERG – for TrainerRoad and others that need that extension
- .MRC – for TrainerRoad, Computrainer, and any others that need this extension
If you downloaded the workout files in the past, you may want revisit these now to get these new and improved workout files:
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If all goes well (it’s forecasting rain), I’ll be attempting Trevor’s 5x5min workout this afternoon.
I’ve found a hill close by that shows my best Strava segment time as 5:11 @ about 110% of my current FTP, so I should be good to complete all 5 minutes at 95% and not run out of road. The only difference will be the rest intervals, as I doubt I’ll get down in 1 minute, so I’ve put it on press lap for the start of each 5-min interval.
I’m doing this as the guinea pig for my club mates (whom I coaching) as many of them don’t have power meters, and dislike riding inside. I prefer doing my Z3 (polarised model) workouts on the trainer as it’s easier to control and also nail them; but riding outside is by far better for the soul. For this session goal, besides me getting the benefit of the workout, I’m hoping to setup a pace that they can work off to complete the intervals at a similar effort (% of their maxHR) and also a similar RPE.
Some feedback from my 5x5-min workout. It didn’t go as planned, but was far from a disaster.
I averaged 106-108% of FTP at 87% HR (intervals 1-4) and 89% HR (interval 5). I could feel I was going harder than I should’ve, especially on the first interval and the last one; but it felt really good (all of them). Interval 3 was the best one, based on the data and feel.
The goal of this session was to find a 4-5 minute hill that my friends (without power meters, and preferring outdoor rides) can do 5-8 reps at a given RPE and average HR. That was successful, I think.
The initial part of the road is 2%, then ramps up to 5-6% for the final 1.5 minutes. The descent took about 2.5 minutes (40-60km/h), meaning I had to pause my head unit while I was approaching the turnaround point.
I’m thinking of doing 4-min intervals, so that I keep the rest intervals to 2 mins, and then do these efforts at VO2max power, 106% on lazy days and up to 120% on feel-good days.
Would this be better than trying to do 5-min intervals with 2.5 minutes recovery?
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Hi @Mr.B sorry I missed your post back in October. Sounds like you executed perfectly! Hope the intervals have been going well!
Trevor
Presumably a nice progression would be
5 x 5 min = 25 min
4 x 7 min = 28 min
6 x 5 min = 30 min
4 x 8 min = 32 min
Any thoughts on how to recognise it’s time to up the progression? I know the term progressive overload is used but just how progressive should the overload be? Would each be block of 3-4 weeks or so? In other words that progression would be roughly 12-16 weeks.
Dr Stephen Seiler says he would prescribe these intervals (one per week):
Week 1: 3x8 at a power you can feel is sustainable
Week 2: 4x8 at the same feel
Week 3: 5x8 the following week.
Week 4: Recovery week, so maybe 3x8.
Repeat the same block but at about 10W higher, or what you can sustain for all intervals. Repeat that each 4 weeks and hopefully see a difference.
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The details of how and when to progress are questions for me. In the base phase for the next two months, I’ll be adding stress with small increases in weekly volume, and some added incremental stress with strength sessions. Would it make more sense to just stay at 5X5min intervals during the base if progressing in other ways? I can see advancing the intervals in my build phase (late winter, early spring). Also, @trevor has commented that he feels 5 X 5 min intervals are more effective at raising threshold than 4 X 8 min, but it wasn’t clear why?
Hi @robertehall1, my comment about 5x5s vs 4x8s is based less on research (I actually haven’t seen any research comparing these two interval sessions) and more on coaching experience. I’ve tried with myself and multiple athletes both running 5x5s through their entire base season and alternatively having them progress from 5x5s to 4x8s. My experience is that doing the 5x5s through the entire base results in a higher measured threshold power by March.
That said, the cost is that while the power is higher, their ability to sustain the power over 30+ minutes is not as good. So, if we just do the 5x5s, I want a period after they complete the 5x5s where they are doing longer intervals to train their ability to sustain that power.
I’ve personally switched back to doing 5x5s through most of the base season (with maybe a few weeks of 4x8s towards the end.)
If you decide to take that approach, my suggestion is to slowly ramp up your power while making sure you stick to the same approximate heart rate response. I’ve seen athletes improve the power they can hold by about 50-60 watts.
I’ll give it a try, thanks @trevor. Last winter I did 4-5 X 8min threshold intervals and interestingly I did not see much, if any, increase in my threshold power, but I did see the improvement in the durations at holding say 80% of threshold, and repeating near threshold efforts like the later climbing sections in a long MTB ride.
Last winter I did 8 min intervals once per week. I started with 4 X 8 min and progressed to 5 X 8 min. I didn’t do any 5 min intervals. My power didn’t increase much over the winter, ~ 5W at best. But I was much better at execution towards the end of the winter. I did see improvements in the spring and summer on strava segments. I’ve had a good two years now of being fairly polarized and increasing volume of base training. So for my intervals this winter I’m going for 5 X 5 min intervals twice per week and hoping to see some increasing power numbers! Thanks for the input.
Does three weeks progressive overload and then one week unload still apply if you are in your fifties? I suspect the answer will be, a “it depends” based on how you are handling the overload.
I’ve two thoughts on this myself.
- Move to a two weeks overload, one week unload cycle, if struggling with 3 weeks load, 1 week unload.
- Stick with 3 weeks load, 1 week unload but reduce the amount of overload added each week.
What is the opinion of the experts?
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It seems you are the expert as the answer is indeed…it depends 
And it depends on whether the overload if functional. If you progress with a 3-week overload it works for you. To determine whether a 2-week overload works better can only be determined by trying.
The adaptive way would be: as soon as you observe that the heart rate or power drops below 5% of your ‘rested’ values for a given intensity, you are moving towards non-functional overload / injury risk.
(5% is arbitrary, but a nice guideline)
I have three guys I’m coaching that are vastly different. Aged 51, 56 and 61. The 56yo is a Diesel engine and thrives on long efforts at threshold. The 61yo can keep up, but has to spend a lot of time in the slipstream of others. He could possibly benefit from a 2:1 load/deload plan, but just enjoys riding his bike. He also finds it hard to grasp the concept of aging and still trying to beat the youngsters.
I’m 48, and together with 7 other club members, (average age is 46) we all race against the full age spectrum (all ages 19 and older as it’s based on ability). South Africa doesn’t have Cat1-2-3-4-5 but rather Youth, Elite/U23, age group Masters and then the alphabet groups in an open category (A, B, C, etc.).
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