@geraldm24 I have had consults with a number of athletes using TrainerRoad in the same way.
The system used to always inflate Threshold way too much, and cause a lot of overtraining in many.
The new test they do is a lot better, but I would still try and keep an eye on this as you can override it.
If you can get threshold close or err on the side of caution, then many of the workouts will be just fine.
Hi @steveneal , I am back after a few months ;-). Is it ok that I do a new HR step test and you can analyze it for me? Can I send you the fit file? I can also include HRV and RR values from my Garmin.
greetings
Stijn
Hi @steveneal I have emailed my fit file.
Did 5min steps:
100bpm(53%) 91W
109bpm(58%) 116W
119bpm(64%) 141W
124bpm(67%) 160W
129bpm(69%) 182W
134bpm(72%) 203W
139bpm(75%) 223W
144bpm(77%) 235W
Felt some fatigue. Because in the last two weeks did some endurance rides at 128bpm and that was mostly between 195-199W. No I was already at 129bpm for 182W.
But ok…It is what it is 
@stino77 Yes thanks. I have had an athlete in town for a little over a week, just been extra busy. He leaves later today.
Will get to this by tomorrow.
Hello @stino77 sorry this took so long this time.
Below is a chart of the comparison, some great improvements.
Below the graph.
In the december test it remains linear until the 223 watts, 1.6 pwhr step. With only one step after that it is hard to say any more into the tempo range, but I would put your LT1 very close to 220 watts.
As long as you weren’t experiencing too much heart rate depression during this test, I would accept the data and be satisfied with the improvement.
All the best again with your training, next time do the test to 90-95% of max heart rate.
@steveneal Hi Steve, don’t know if this thread is still open. Have been following your training methods and thought about giving them a try. Is it still possible for you to analyse a hr step test that I will do to give an approximation of my zones? Like you’ve done to others above? If you can’t no worries just thought i’d ask in case.
My max hr is 205 (highest ive seen on a club ride). Only been riding a year so could be higher if I raced maybe. Would counting the breathing also help the with the data?
Thanks and sorry for taking up your time.
Dan
Hello,
Yes I can do this for you if you can get me the fit file, breathing always helps if you can add that in.
Hi Steve, thanks for this much appreciated.
I did the test twice thinking that the first one was wrong because my power seemed much lower than my power outside. Anyway both came out very similar so I guess my Heart rate is maybe higher inside or the ramp in the test inflates HR, or my HR is just higher, I don’t know.
Thought my max heart rate was 205 so my 1st test went:
Level - watts - HR - Breaths
100bpm - 48w - 103bpm 12
120bpm - 76w - 119bpm 12
130bpm - 103w - 130bpm 12
140bpm - 128w - 140bpm - 14
150bpm - 151w - 149bpm - 16
160bpm - 186 - 159 bpm - 16
170bpm - 215w - 169bpm - 18
180bpm - 249w - 181bpm - 36
190bpm - 272w - 192bpm - 38
200bpm - 299w - 201 bpm - forgot to count!!
30s - 208bpm (just to see where my Max Hr was)
Using max HR 208 from day before (only difference in test is I did this an hour earlier in the morning and I warmed up for 5 minutes):
Level - watts - HR - Breaths
105bpm - 38w - 104bpm 12
125.5bpm - 98w - 123bpm 12
136bpm - 125w - 136bpm 12
146bpm - 151w - 145bpm - 16
157bpm - 183w - 156bpm - 16
167bpm - 208w - 166 bpm - 18
178bpm - 239w - 177bpm - 18
188bpm - 269w - 188bpm - 36
199bpm - 298w - 199bpm - 38 (thought about this today this stage felt more uncontrolled in terms of breathing compared to other steps, still quite controlled though)
Stopped today before going to max
A few things: This is the first time I did an bike ride on my indoor trainer normally just cycle outside. And there were a few differences:
I know from sub max testing what my Heart normally is outside from doing tests in the warm-up and I’m not sure the match up with the above:
10minutes at 210watts - 159bpm (max 163bpm) cadence 91rpm.
x2 30 minutes: 1st 30minutes 235w (167bpm). 2nd 30minutes 229w (168bpm) - (max heart rate were 172 and 173bpm)
20 minute FTP test - 296w (187bpm) (max heart rate 197bpm).
Max heart rate seen outside = 205bpm
Hope this helps, I’ve already sent yesterday’s fit file. I’ll send today now. Don’t know which one is best to use.
Any insights from others would be great, thanks.
Thanks again
Dan
Hello everyone! I have just decided to join this community after reading for a while this fascinating thread. I would not say I am an “athlete” but more a recreational rider an enthusiast about training analysis. I am 52 and training not very hard (4-5h week) for about a year and a half.
I have performed Steve´s Step Test by heart rate and this is my result:
Looks like my endurance should be about 125-130 bpm and my tempo … maybe 140 bpm? Any feedback is welcome!
do you mind sending me the fit file ?
did you average the entire interval?
Hello @danpyrs
This method works for a surprising number of people…but doesn’t seem to work for you at finding aerobic threshold.
When I include your breathing (which if I am calculating correctly, your number of breaths x 4 for breaths per minute???
We do get a good Second Threshold indicator.
So…here is your graph, and can see that there is a power to heart rate ratio increase with the respiration increase, but there aren’t any noticeable changes at aerobic threshold.
If you can explain your breath information (the numbers I used were from you email, but I see in your post they are different) that will also help me in case I graphed it wrong. Normally I recommend counting breaths for the last 15s of each step, then multiply by 4 to get breaths per minute per stage.
Talk soon
@danpyrs did you do this step test by heart rate, allowing power to come into the legs?
or did you hold power steady and let the heart rate rise?
Hi Steve. Yes I averaged the whole 5 min interval. I am sending the file. Many thanks!
@steveneal hi Steve, I did the test by heart rate. Didn’t really look at power. However I think the power was out because I did my MAP ramp test today and the power was 20watts higher at each stage. I don’t know if this would make much of a difference since the power was still constant.
I will try the HR test again next week to see if there are any differences.
Would test results like these without a clear LT1 indicate anything? Like a weak aerobic system?
Thanks
Dan
Hi, ok thanks.
Here is the picture again, and there is deflection at 150w for respiration and the pwhr does go up a little (normally I see a flattening of the pwhr here)
The heart rates at the top are in % of max and are inline with what is a normal range. For AeT 60-75%, you are at 74% if we go with 150 watts.
The AT at 272 watts is at 96%. So a range here of 90-95% would be normal.
So the heart rate relative to respiration is a little high, meaning there is a need for more aerobic development, mostly from longer endurance training and proper tempo.
If we look at just one of your examples, 10m at 210 watts, 159 (77.5% max) how does this feel to you? like tempo? like threshold?
What are the training zones that you have been using for your training?
Hello @damonti
You got it!
This gives you a good measurement to compare to in the future.
The only thing to consider now is what type of training to do to improve this picture?
Hi Steve @steveneal , thanks for this. The power was wrong for the above test I think so I did the following things:
I did a 3m ERG ramp test yesterday to get my MAP score. I stopped before failure just because I had a ride planned in the afternoon with a friend. I stopped at 2m into 350w. So I estimated that my MAP would of been 375w. I took 75% of the MAP for my FTP so about 280w which sound about right or a bit conservative but I’ll try it again in a couple of weeks.
Today I did a 30m aerobic test at average heart rate 169bpm at a power of 232w. I took 208 as my max heart rate and took 80-83% of mhr and stayed in that heart rate zone.
So for zones I’ve tried to correlate my heart rate and power which gives me:
Endurance 135bpm-156bpm(65-75%mhr) - 155w-210w
Tempo: 162bpm-173bpm (78-83%mhr) - 211-236w
These zones feel about right.
Doing both the tests gives me a Aerobic/MAP of 62%. Which tells me I need to work on my endurance and low tempo.
How high should I get the Aerobic/MAP ratio before I switch to higher intensity?
Also in terms of LT1 from listening to my breathing when riding the past few days it does feel that it gets deeper at about 155bpm. Which probably makes sense with what you said above. But I’ve used 208 as my max heart rate and you used 205. Should I use 205?
I think I’m on the right track and from reading up on your philosophies I’m looking forward to trying them out. Let me know if I’ve got this wrong!!
Thanks
Dan
