Raising the floor (LT1, tempo)

@steveneal thanks for the graph.

On the practical side:
The tempo zone covers one step in my graph, so I should stay around 141bpm (no lower than 130, no higher than 150)?

Yesterday’s ride then fell in line with that, feeling almost a tad too easy - but it was just one session and 70min TiZ.

On an abstract level (if that doesn’t go too deep into your trade secrets):

How do you determine if/when a change in Pwr:HR signifies a change in zone?

  • why does my endurance zone end at 129bpm for example, and not 141?
  • when the pwr:HR ratio is mostly constant, as for @novet - how do you set zones there?

That’s great, thanks @steveneal. Really interesting to see those results so I will definitely keep track and use the test again.

In regards to getting the P/Hr ratio up closer to 2.00, would you suggest more work below LT1, at tempo or threshold, or just a good mix of all of them?

I am currently either doing a TT race or threshold workout once a week anyway with some mixed endurance and an occasional high intensity session or group ride so would be good to know where to focus my efforts.

As a comparison here are the results from a recent lactate test I did

@novet very similar numbers to the hr step test actually. Do you have the fit file from that test, as well as the actual lactate numbers?

I would use that zone as the ceiling so not to go above 141. The fact that it felt a tad easy…but not easy might be just about right.

It can be different for everyone, but usually an increase that is non-linear, or a negative deflection as in @novet in this case

When you see it becoming constant like @novet this is relevant to a flattening lactate curve, this I have seen.

What I would recommend is doing one of these every other week, and in the weeks in between you could do an erg step test by power.

Also as mentioned count the respiration next time, and feel free to send this to me, and can run in my software.

There is no substitution for metabolic testing or Inscyd for full data. This is a good way to follow trends in between those tests.

Let me know what you think after doing this a few times.

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Would that power step test be to failure, or what do you have in mind? Which step length would you recommend?

Would the power step test cover your need for testing 3 or 6 minute power, or should that still be done separately?

I’ve got the fit file and I’ll see if I can get hold of the lacate numbers

It doesn’t have to be to failure all the time. I would use the same step duration as the HR step test so 5 minutes.

I would do a separate hard effort of 3 and 6 minutes on different occasions. As your tempo ability improves you will see the peak 1m power of the ERG step test get closer and closer to your short duration time trials.

The step tests are great warm-ups if you are training indoors, an easy way to track progression and not interfere with training.

Could share some material for the breathing at each step? I can use without any software, make my own calculations etc… ? Which soft do you use for this? thanks

Hi.

For breathing, in and out breath equals 1 - count for 15s at the end of each 5m step, then mutliply by 4 to get breath per minute in each step. A half breath can be recorded. I just keep a notepad beside me to write these down and do math after.

I have my own software which will be available publicly one day, hopefully before the end of 2021 but there are still a number of things I want to add first.

If you can send the data I don’t mind graphing for you and publishing a pic in the forum.

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Update after a three-week block + recovery week:

Quite a jump! Getting vaccinated during the recovery week meant that I really took it easy :grin:

6 minute power “increased” from 360 to 365.

During those three weeks:

  • 29h of riding
  • 11h Tempo
  • increasing TiZ per week, longest interval: 1.75h

Now, two weeks until a no-bike vacation. No imminent events. Any pointers what to focus on?

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Nice work @Stefan_Apellido

Does your perceived exertion match your power to heart rate improvement?

Can you show me an example week? What I am really wondering is have you been doing Tempo back to back OR three days in a row yet? Or are you still separating these heavier days of work?

Felt that it took a bit of effort to get to each target HR. Like a slow(er) revving engine. Don’t have a good picture of the new state yet, as the step test was the first real workout after feeling very flat during the recovery week.

Well, there was plan vs. reality (friends can be the biggest detriment to a training plan :grin:).

Planned to separate the heavy days:
Tue: Tempo
Wed: short endurance (+ strength training day)
Thu: Endurance (or tempo with less TiZ than Tuesday)

Sat: Tempo
Sun: Long endurance

Monday of the second week was a holiday and the following Sunday went awry, resulting in:

So I guess you’re eyeballing back-to-back(-to-back) days?

Hi, yes if you have been separating you might try.

2 days in a row, then a break then 2 days in a row.

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Hey @steveneal - Hope you’re well. Here are two comparison ramp and balance point tests over a 2 month period working specifically on LT1/Balance Point. The second test I used 10 bpm steps in the second part of the test vs the first test which was 5 bpm steps.

You can see due to the using 10 bpm steps on the second test this increases the lactate values overall and required me to push all the way to 254 watts until I saw an increase in lactate again going from 2.1 mmol to 4.3 mmol.

I’m curious what this tells me about the increase in my ability to tolerate higher wattages at a stable lactate and if this second test performed last week is a valid comparison given the difference of 5 bpm vs 10 bpm steps.

Any insight?

Graph 1

Graph 2

@bikeguy0 Hello, thanks for sharing this info in an organized way!

I will run this in my FaCt software, but won’t be able to do this until tomorrow afternoon.

Steve

It is good to do the 10 beat steps right away on the second phase, but you should have switched to 5 beats from 141 heart rate on to get better results.

These results are still good, but there is a possibility this is inflated by about 5 beats.

With the lactate values at 2.1 and 2.1 at 141 and 151 heart rate, it is possible it went down and then started coming back up during that phase (If you do this 10 beat version again, take a lactate half way through this stage and you will know) If it stays stable, then LBP is the higher value, if it goes down through that stage then back up you would use 145 in this case. Hope that piece makes sense.

The only other piece of this is the maximal lactate on the second test, I feel like it might be an error? If you see something so different than the past, I would take another right away.

+++

Before I complete the tests.

What were the dates?

What do you weigh?

Did you finish the final stage in both tests? or only a portion of the final stage? If not the full stage how many seconds into each one.

Thx Steve!!

  • Date was 4/20/21 on 1st and 6/10/21 on second.
  • Weight was 182 on first test and 177 on second
  • Max lactate was very high at 17 but I’ve seen 12-15 on a previous test so didn’t seem so crazy
  • 4/20/21 test I made it 2:06 into the 300 watt stage
  • 6/10/21 test I made it 12 seconds into the 325 watt stage

@bikeguy0 Thank you.

Please always let me know on the duration of that last stage.

Will re-graph these and get some numbers up!

@bikeguy0

Here is the first test re-graphed.

Note the reverse deflection at the top, as you know from the past with this test, this means a muscular limitation. So you were either a little tired at the time of the test, or could have used some high torque training at the time.

Lactate Balance Point Heart Rate = 135

Lactate Balance Point Wattage = 203

Second Test

Lactate Balance Point Heart Rate = 141

Lactate Balance Point Wattage = 227

Wattage improvement 9.7% great job!

Overlap

Below is an overlap of both of these tests.

You will notice there is a much better improvement at the bottom of the test from LBP downwards, where you have been doing your work.

The top end is very similar to the last test but NO reverse deflection anymore, so this is an improvement as well, just not major.

I would continue for another month of the path you have been on as it is progressing you nicely. It would be good to see if another month or so of the work you have been doing has an effect at the top end.

If not, then it would be time to inject some harder work for 2-3 weeks, or find some racing.

All the best.